Posts by Had Enough

98

Greenlees & Chitty -- Some Sources

by AlanF in

posted on an email message board:.

posted recently to the h2o message board:.

Had Enough

Thank you Alan for all the effort put into finding this info for us.

This subject still has me reeling! Even though I started to drift away 2 years ago, it was for personal family reasons envolving my disbelief in shunning.

I would never have believed until now (starting last year) that this kind of hypocrisy was even possible let alone rumoured about. But the very fact that there are rumours, and suspicions and accusations of gay and molestation activities in an org. that denounces those activities and presents itself and snow-white pure and holy, just makes this so much harder to take. To me, such a thing would never happen to those in the house blessed by God's spirit (much less carry on for years) because, as they preached..."it's condemned by God and we worship God in spirit and truth".

My picture of Bethel and its members was that which they painted for us, of purity, spiritual strength and mature obediance to God's Word...a sharp contrast to the world and in particular, the Catholic religion. Again this was the belief I had taught to me growing up in the 50's and 60's.

And for me, the irony of it is, that my ex-husband and elder, was a former Catholic who read a book written by an ex-priest who exposed these very same kind of activities going on in the Catholic church and this was the turning point for him (my ex) to denounce them and became a JW. I wonder what he, and many others with similar backgrounds, will think now once this info is presented.

The book by the priest didn't give names and dates but was relating his own personal experience and what he heard from others. It was very believable. Hopefully the more these events are made public, the more facts and "eye-witness" accounts will be added to them to substantiate them even more.

To thinkerswife:

I'm glad you added your thoughts on this subject. Your relating of your observations and instincts just adds to believability that these accounts of theses sort of things now being related are possible. The fact that so many, having lived in Bethel or associated with Bethelites, are relating the same experiences, memories, opinions and gut-feelings, knocks down the barrier of dis-belief that I and I'm sure many more like me would have had, given the Bible-thumping we've received denouncing these practices.

I never want to hastily jump on the bandwagon of gullibility and be accused of believing whatever bad I'm told about the org. I too want to be able to substantiate whatever I repeat, as truth, to those who would deny the possibility of this every happening in the org.

The very fact that so many, in different parts of USA and Canada, were at Bethel and the congregations involved during and after the events, and are relating the same kind of details, is enough for me to believe it's credibility, but yes, definite facts will be needed for most die-hard JWs (if they ever will even listen at all)

At least the general public is being made aware of the scars and blemishes on the "picture of purity" that the org. paints of itself.

Had Enough

21

Disfellowshipping Doesn't Sever Family Ties?

by tergiversator in

jw
friends

"disfellowshipping does not sever family ties.".

or so claims the watchtower's official faq.

so, i would like to take an informal poll: how has being disfellowshippid/ disassociated/ inactive/ just having doubts affected relations with your family?

Had Enough

Hi all:

As I've posted before, this is such a touchy subject with me.

It just breaks my heart to read your stories of mothers and children and grandchildren being torn apart.

When I was df'd, my parents were willing to visit with me and I did a couple of times but my brother lived within eyesight of their place and made it plain to them they would "get in trouble with the elders" if I came there again, not even a phonecall from me was allowed. At least they wanted to see me though.

Not one of my JW family came to my wedding (wasn't even in a church) when I was df'd except my non-JW aunts.

I was reinstated but a few years later my son was da'd by the elders because he didn't want to meet with them and made it plain he didn't want to go to the meetings anymore. I refused to be forced into shunning my son because some men in "high places" say I should.

At that time I started to slip away from attendance and no one has tried to push me into not associating with him

My mother and brother have not seen him and talked to him since. My married daughter and his father have only seen him once for a family medical emergency and once for a funeral. They at least were warm and welcoming to him and his wife and baby, but as soon as that was over, it's back to no talking again.

I do take my son's wife and baby to visit my JW family I guess because I can't bear their hurt at not getting to know his baby as she grows up. They truly feel they're doing what's right "for him" and I'm disobeying the rules because I'm weak. So be it. My son knows I'll be there for him anytime and I'm enjoying my granddaughter more than words can say. My son's father is the one that's missing out on being a grandfather by his own choice.

As for other JWs ignoring the info on the official WT website and the FAQs part...I suppose more will use that as an excuse too. I just can't fathom having been that blind once too!

It's just such an absolute disgrace how much power these puny men have over so many people lives. What a waste of the short life we have. Why can't we just live it to the full with happy families enjoying each other. I tell my son regularly how much I love him and thank him giving me the most precious gift ever..my granddaughter and another one on the way.

I could not live if I had to shun them...I just couldn't. How can anyone do this to their own children, parents, siblings?

I feel so bad for all of you who have had mothers, sisters, brothers, children, anyone cut you out of their lives.

I hope someday soon, this will blow up in the borg's face, and they will be brought to their knees for their crimes.

If any borg. members or by-the-book JWs are reading this..how do you sleep at night? Don't tell us God requires it..it's men who twisted the scriptures and made the rule. A little searching will find out the real truth

I've so....Had Enough

36

The Pope a JW...!!!

by JWD in

jw
friends

most of the relatives on my father`s side were catholic.

i still remember the first time i went to a high mass.

it was a shock to my.

Had Enough

The amazing thing about these similarities is that many JWs were Catholic and left that to be JWs. My JW ex-husband for one left the Catholic faith because of the "hypocrisy" and constantly made fun of their blindness.

And how many JWs have we heard (or joined in with) ridiculing their beliefs. That was one thing my non-JW husband has remarked about hearing the few times he was at a JW function (funeral, wedding, social gathering) with me and as an outsider, he wasn't too impressed with JWs double-standards. hmmmmmm

Had Enough

25

Hi

by heff in

jw
friends

i have been lurking around here for quite some time now, posted a few short replies, and engaged in a little chat from time to time.

its almost hard to remember, just a few months back, feeling like i was the only one to live through a jw experience and not be sorry that i am no longer a part of it.

i am very happy to have found this site.. i would like to better introduce myself as i have seen several others do.. i was born in '78 to a fanatical jw mother and an unbelieving alcholic father.

Had Enough

Hi again Heff and everyone:

I've already said my welcome but wanted to add one more thought.

One of the biggest helps I've experienced here is realizing how many others grew up feeling the same as I did. It still amazes me every day I read peoples thoughts and memories here.

So many of us have grown up thinking we were different from other "good" JWs, were unworthy for our less-than-perfect spirituality or for our doubts. We felt forced to "enjoy" service, to "feel the maturity" of baptism, and to "want" to go to all the meetings and study.

We were supposed to feel sorry for the poor unbelievers who were angering God by celebrating all those pagan holidays and not feel left out and there's still so much more we were supposed to do or feel. Most of us felt the guilt of not living up to those expectations that we thought everyone else did, or we saw the hypocrisy of so many that showed in their "do as I say, not as I do" policy.

I carried my feelings of unworthiness for my doubts and imperfections for so many years until recently when I first read Ray Franz's first book 'Crisis of Conscience'. They effect that had was shock to say the least and I had to read it in spurts between getting up and pacing and crying. My whole picture-perfect world of the WTS was suddenly dirty.

Here we find many others who experienced similar eye-openers and what a help it is to be able to discuss it and contribute.

Just wanted to add my appreciation for all the growing I've been helped to do just in the last 2 months.

Had Enough

25

Hi

by heff in

jw
friends

i have been lurking around here for quite some time now, posted a few short replies, and engaged in a little chat from time to time.

its almost hard to remember, just a few months back, feeling like i was the only one to live through a jw experience and not be sorry that i am no longer a part of it.

i am very happy to have found this site.. i would like to better introduce myself as i have seen several others do.. i was born in '78 to a fanatical jw mother and an unbelieving alcholic father.

Had Enough

Hi Heff:

You are very welcome here and certainly not alone.

Your story is a sad one but so typical of how many feel trapped and cannot see their way out. Many live with guilt and doubts of their own self-worth and those that make it out, or are on their way out, or are still trapped but want out, find here, a mountain of encouragement, support, understanding and the occasional straightening out when needed.

I have a son your age who is da'd and is shunned by his sister and father and his new family. I couldn't bring myself to treat my own son that way, so I just began to drift away, and nobody in my family really noticed since they are all in different congregations. Now 2 years later, I have spent many hours recently, learning new things about the org. that is made known in this site and others. I have no desire to return in the least.

Everyday the number of registered ones here rises. And I'm sure there'll be scads more as the lies, secrets, skeletons, and scandles are made public as it should be. We all feel duped and want healing and justice.

It's always great to hear one more escapee story. Welcome.

Had Enough

49

murder letter

by silentlambs in

lets dance, we have added "wt letters" section to the website.

it will offer a new letter each week added to a list with an introduction.

read the introduction, click to view the letter and see if it answers the questions.

Had Enough

Hi waiting:

Silentlambs webpage is at
http://www.silentlambs.org/

Had Enough

3

GB says: "Mother knows best" !

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

if you wanted an example of the borg teaching that the organisation has that equality with god that the roman catholic church gives to mary in worship, read page 26 of the june 15 w/t.. in a report of a talk given by gb member gerrit losch, he said: "let us always stay close to jehovah and his motherlike organisation..".

one for the record books, eh?.

cheers,.

Had Enough

Hello Ozzie:

I read that statement now and ask: How can they make a statement like that and not fear overstepping their bounds with God?

Yet how many JWs now will read that and say "yup that's right! Organization=good and all other religions=bad...and that's as far as they think. Whatever the org. says is OK.

We all did I guess didn't we.

Had Enough

8

Happy Mothers Day!!!

by Jang in

jw
friends

http://www1.bluemountain.com/cards/boxa225257e1/fkenahgmsy85kd.html.

motherhood and homemaking.

i feel like ive wasted my life," said one mother whose last child had recently.

Had Enough

Thanks JanG:

It is now Mother's Day here in Canada as I write this.

You brightened up my day with your cheery message. Your site was just what I needed this morning as I know my JW daughter loves me, but how wonderful it would be to receive a special message on a special day.

Thanks for sharing that site with us.

Had Enough

46

Leo Greenlees,

by Kiwi in

jw
friends

i seem to remember something on the board about leo greenlees being removed from bethel & the gb.

can anyone give me information about this.

is he still allive and where?

Had Enough

To AlanF:
Thank you for your response. I respect your position and the need for discretion. I'm sure more will be revealed as time goes on anyway, so my family is due for an eye-opening. At least for now, knowing these things actually happened in that ivory tower, paints a more believable picture of reality instead of the whitewash of spirit-directed holy men we've been handed. These men were fallible despite their claims of divine approval and I, for one, appreciate knowing the real truth. Thanks again for bringing this to our attention.

To SanFranciscoJim:
Thanks for your offer. I've emailed you. Let me know if you didn't get it.

Had Enough

31

Do You Fear Death?

by think41self in

jw
friends

i am very interested to know how all of you feel about the subject of death and the future.

do you fear death?

what do you think are the possibilities for the future?.

Had Enough

think41self:

Thank you for starting this topic. Being new thinking on my own without running to the index for what I should be doing, this has been one of the thoughts foremost in my mind. What now is the real truth about our eventuality?

I agree with your thought:

I would much rather face the future without some fantasy dream

So now comes the work of trying to figure out what makes more sense to me now. I'm cautious now...not ready to jump at the next pretty picture.

Like Winston, I was active in JW activities "putting the important things and relationships on hold, not feeling that I had to lift a finger to make this world a better place. I was merely existing, going thru the motions.....not really living at all". Add to that (as he said) being motivated by fear and a desire to save myself (and feeling guilty that that was the wrong motivation).

Now I don't look at things with a lax attitude like I'll have eternity to work that out so why worry about it now. Now each day counts. Each day that I can talk to my little grandchild and hear her enthusiasm to be with me, I count as something to cherish. I can't imagine how anyone following the shunning rule can uphold it, when I'm experiencing what they (the rest of my family) are missing. But therein lies the difference between believing you'll live forever and facing the reality of death.

Quite simply...life is for living, not just existing.

Had Enough